Awards Changes

Awards Changes

Postby Freedom » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:18 am

There is quite an active topic (as is not unusual) taking place on NBN about the awards that contains a number of criticsms of the awards (again, not unusual).

It contains a few points that I think are quite valid and find difficult to argue, such as showing voter numbers rather than percentages.

Perhaps it would be beneficial to all if some there was a discussion here to look at ways to improve the awards for 2015?
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby roya » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:10 pm

HMM

Simples as far as I am concerned,

Instead of moaning why not try voting instead.

Sitting in opposition droning on and on don't do nothing,join and work inside often works -uu-



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Re: Awards Changes

Postby VetChugger » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:28 pm

Errrrmmmm no it does not! I suggested a simple addition of voting numbers in an effort to reinforce validity. Rapidly dismissed and not in the friendliest manner!
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby hank » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:18 pm

I personally would welcome any suggestions for improvement in the awards and the process leading up to them.

I note on NBN the suggestion that maybe all the forums could vote giving the awards more validity. I suggested this to both the other forums but was blanked!
furthermore having just read the awards thread on NBN I am unable to reply as I'm banned (I did nowt wrong)

Vetchugger, Your post was removed because it was in the wrong place, it quite clearly stated at the bottom of the thread not to post execept for nominations. You were quite welcome to post a new topic. I would also apologise if you felt that we were abrupt or rude in what we did.

Another point NBN state that they, like other forums, do not allow crosslinking. WE DO
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby petemarr » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:21 am

Yes we would always welcome sensible suggestions on how to improve the awards.We try our best to please everyone but you know the old adage about that subject.

As for the knockers, well they can't even be bothered to attend so how they can comment I really don't know.

.Admin spend well over 9 months of hard planning, spending many hours of our own time getting it all together for the big night. So a few minutes of knocking us hiding behind a keyboard is insignificant in our eyes.

The awards are non profit making, we contribute towards charities each year, and local businesses in Norfolk support us and love what we try to do for them. The look of delight on the winners faces make it all worth while to us.

So carry on knocking we need all the publicity we can get for next year. -A- -A- -A-
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby Freedom » Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:57 am

The awards are valued by some and mocked by others. You can't please everyone all the time.

But, there are often improvements that can be made and I think that, regardless of whether the suggestions come from people who choose to post here or throw stones from the sidelines, a good suggestion is a good suggestion.

As a multi-award winner (I now have four plaques (thanks everyone)), I embrace the event wholeheartedly and promote the awards and forum heavily during the voting stages. But, I can see the flaws and weaknesses of it too. I find myself agreeing with some of the comments made elsewhere.

Nobody would argue that NBO and the awards would benefit from more contributing members, so I think that there needs to be a concerted effort to listen to the knockers and try to address some of the points. It is a terrible shame that some people here seem to be banned from commenting over there too and anybody reading the thread on NBN http://www.thenorfolkbroads.net/forum/topic/5991-broads-awards-this-year/ will know that I have openly commented on the TOS that clearly creates an unlevel playing field.

See, nothing is perfect, but change is always possible and should never be discounted.
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby MBA Marine » Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:07 am

I will hold back on my personal thoughts with regard to forum politics.

Changes could well help and the numbers business is a good place to start. but for me during the voting process no graphic should be displayed but just a message to say thank you your vote has been counted. People are easily led, and they often either vote like sheep following others or they vote for the candidate who has least votes, a vote for the underdog.

To have a secret ballet is the only way to remove these factors. The percentages and voter numbers could then be released as the winner is announced, as all nominees have been nominated by people it should be rare that a candidate gains no votes .

One does have to put faith in those who regulate the voting to not allow corruption of the numbers, but this is the same for all voting processes.
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby Freedom » Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:18 am

I think Mark's suggestion is a good one.
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby Maurice_Mynah » Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:18 pm

How about this as a possible solution.
I agree with Mark's points about keeping the votes concealed until the day of the ceremony, keeps the element of surprise.
At the award ceremony give the percentage of the vote, but not the numbers. but...
Make it clear that anyone wanting the actual count of any individual vote can obtain that information via e-mail, (the NBO setting up an e-mail address for that purpose)
What this would achieve is that it showed the information was available for minimal effort on the requesters part.
It is my opinion that those wanting those figures do so for mischievous reasons but would be less bothered if they had to send out an e-mail for each of the results.
Just a thought!
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby petemarr » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:59 pm

but for me during the voting process no graphic should be displayed


Unfortunately the voting system built into the forum program will not allow this, it is limited. When a vote is cast it automatically shows the current vote to date and we can not change that
.
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby hank » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:02 am

Pete is right the voting system we use is built into the forum software and we have little control on how it works via the "admin panel" an upgrade to the software 2 years ago changed the results from numbers to percentage. It was not a decision on our part!
I have looked at the code and will attempt some changes and see what is possible. The Email suggestion is a good idea, however the Email part of the forum software has never worked (it was originally designed to allow confirmation for new members) this is something I have been looking into (for various reasons) and hope to have sorted at some point. When I have time lol
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby petemarr » Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:40 am

Like it or lump it the awards are here to stay.

try telling our Sue otherwise at your peril Lol .Tee. .Tee. .Tee. .Tee.
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby Freedom » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:28 am

The voting manager module 1.0.2 version appears to enable some of the changes we are discussing.

I don't know what version is in use or whether any other mods to the system might make this difficult, but some functionality appears to exist
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby littlesprite » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:00 am

The main criticism I have seen levelled at the awards are to do with low numbers voting making the result pointless, worthless, invalid, it does make me wonder why people become so set against something that they consider worthless.
The one thing I've never seen is the suggestion that any business or individual has ever been harmed by the awards, so if no one has ever suffered harm and the businesses and individuals taking part have all done so willingly and enjoyed the experience then long may it continue.
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby Paul » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:29 am

I post on all three forums, and whilst I have my preferences I make a point of not criticising any one of them on another. If I have a criticism of any forum then it gets posted to the forum concerned. Certain forums deal better with that than others. Obviously not everyone adopts that same standard and there does seem to be a degree of derogatory comment elsewhere solely intended to belittle the awards and those who are responsible for them, with no suggestion or wish towards any improvement. That's a shame, not for the awards or for Pete or Sue and the huge effort they put into the awards each year but for those people making the comments as in the end they only belittle themselves.
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby Maurice_Mynah » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:05 pm

To both Paul and Martin, Amen to that.
I have to admit to being a tad disappointed with the NBN's member's responses, some of whom would do well to learn from the attitudes of members of this forum.
Personally I had a wonderful time at the ceremony, and am already looking forwards to next years.
I agree that perhaps some changes to the system might be beneficial, but don't rush into any.
As the current system is driven by the forum software, leave it as is, but I'd still think about allowing the actual numbers being made available via e-mail, or perhaps even better still, via snail mail to a PO box number with a stamped self addressed envelope to be included.
No really good reason why mischief makers should be given things on a plate. :)
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby petemarr » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:17 pm

but I'd still think about allowing the actual numbers being made available via e-mail, or perhaps even better still, via snail mail to a PO box number with a stamped self addressed envelope to be included.


Great Idea, Can you put Admin on the mailing list as we don't know the numbers only the % of votes. :D :D :D
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby roya » Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:09 pm

HI all;
all the poo that has
gone on elsewhere is the very reason this site was started.


Its so easy to be a key board ANCHOR .Tee. ,

OurAdmin team at the very worst can only be convicted of trying to Help and Promote the cause of enjoying BROAD LAND HOLIDAYS.

One MOD on NBF says WHO CARES

ANOTHER so called Sage on NBN says our Awards are Tacky.

I leave it to you .



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Re: Awards Changes

Postby hank » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:06 pm

I can see there have been suggestions regarding the "transparency" of the awards with people (on other sites) commenting on how they can't see results or see numbers or how percentages are shown instead.

Can I please point out the software on this site is maintained by myself I am still learning how SQL, PHP PHPBB3 and all the components work. If I had time the site would look really professional and be an amazing experience. Unfortunately I work a minimum 10 hour day including Saturdays, Sundays and bank holidays. I don't have time to correct every minor flaw in the software. When I get time off I'm usually trying to fix/install something on the boat.

The awards are no different. Every year we try to improve what we do, we have attempted to make the awards more representative but have had no positive response from people we asked. We feel that each year the awrds are improving and becoming more business orientated both in the quality of our sponsors and the ceremony itself.

Please note we do not make any profit from the awards (in fact we make a personal loss). The awards are there (originally created by NBN) to help promote Broadland business's that provide good service as recognised by their customers who nominate or vote. There has been criticism that "you have to be a member of NBO to vote" this is simply because it is the only safeguard we have to register one person one vote - we are aware the sytem is open to abuse and do try to stop said abuse - but it's the best system we can come up with.

If YOU can think of better ways then Please Please Please post here with your ideas, we will consider anything that can feasably be done, but please remember we are constricted by what the current software can do.

Many thanks to our members who have replied on NBN echoing my own sentiments (as I can't).
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby TudorRose » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:00 pm

Guess it's time for my say :x

After the Awards each year Pete, Hank and I sit down and discuss what went on, how we can improve and start putting plans into place for the following year.

We have taken into account all the comments made on this forum and will discuss them next time we meet. We will do our best to take your suggestions onboard and improve where we can.

The Broads Awards take up a lot of our time but is something we do willingly as NBO are passionate about supporting Broadland businesses and the local economy. We don't charge anyone to advertise their services on this forum and welcome any business to promote themselves here, quite unlike others who only see the £££££ signs.

The Winners of our Awards are rightly proud and the backing of our sponsors proves that the Broads Awards are worth their weight so the Doubting Thomas's can think what they like.

I won't personally get upset at the comments made on NBN as I know you'll soon move on and have a go at someone else. We'll just wait till this time next year and it will be our turn again, at least while you're having a go at us you are leaving someone else alone.

In the meantime, NBF, NBN or any other Broads related site if you would like to join the nomination/voting process next year then please contact me tudorrose@thenorfolkbroads.org and we will discuss the options.

Finally, Congratulations to all the winners of the 2014 Broads Awards, a huge Thank you to our sponsors and to everyone who attended the ceremony and contributed to the raffle which raised £120 for Scotty's Little Soldiers.
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Re: Awards Changes

Postby Freedom » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:33 am

As I have said elsewhere, I support the awards because they have supported me. It is a worthwhile process each year and taking part is enjoyable.

There are a number of areas that could be improved (aren't there always?) but the main issue as far as I can see is accepting that some of the comments levelled at the awards are valid and trying to do something to address them.

I know where Hank is coming from. I am a competent PHP and SQL coder, but like him have little time. If I can assist, I will, but time is a premium.
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